Exploring with Cam Lee Small

A Q&A with Korean adoptee, licensed therapist, author, TEDx speaker, and adoption literacy educator for adoptees, therapists, and parents of adoptees

Recently, I was listening to one of those celebrity “we interview other celebrities” podcasts, and the host said with some mock exasperation: “Don’t ever meet your heroes,” meaning, of course, that it’s all a build up to something disappointing.

I believe in real-life superheroes. And everyday superpowers.

In a superhero world of origin stories, each of us has one. It’s how we emerge from those roots that defines us, and as we figure it out, we certainly impact a lot of people along the way.

What I mean to say is that meeting Cam Lee Small, one of my personal superheroes in the adoptee community, was anything but disappointing.

In Cam I discovered a rare kind of authentic graciousness. When you speak, he really listens. When he says he’s excited to meet you, that he’s in your corner, and that he loves connecting with others and rooting for us, you know he means it. Because it’s true.

I believe Cam could have taken quite a few paths with his superpowers. I feel thankful that he’s using them to help adult adoptees as well as adoptive parents of transracial and intercountry adopted kids. All of us see the next generation of adoptees and feel our hearts seize up with worry, anticipation, and empathy. I know mine does.

Gen Z adoptees will find themselves with questions about their Selves the same as we all do, and Cam is helping to equip the people closest (in proximity and immediate relation) to them - their parents - with tools and resources to help. I say this with all of the humility and irony in the world: their parents are now our age. They’re the next generation of adoptive parents. No matter what your stance is on intercountry adoption or adoption in general, it’s out there. It happened. It’s still happening. And knowing that people like Cam are actively guiding, researching, and being a voice in our community makes my heart relax a bit.

I don’t mean to suggest all of the responsibility for advocacy and support comes from a single person. But I do mean to say how proud and happy I am to know that Cam is one gear in the ever-growing system of adoptees and adoptee allies who genuinely care for all of us. Together, I know we’re making a difference.

Check out Cam Lee Smalls on his website including a recent TEDx talk and a myriad of resources he shares including workshops for adoptive parents, adoptee support groups, and more. You can also follow him on LinkedIn and Instagram. I learn something every time he shares a bit of his story and knowledge with us. It’s a gift and privilege to be in community with Cam. I know you’ll feel the same way, too. Here’s Cam:

What should we know about you?

I was born in Korea and lived there with my parents till I was about three years old. Due to some unfortunate circumstances, I was then placed for international, transracial adoption. I spent 6 months in foster care in Korea and then traveled to Wisconsin to meet my adoptive family. I grew up in Wisconsin and went through my whole journey of discovering what it means to be a transracial adoptee in the world and also in Wisconsin. Through that journey, I learned a lot about myself - and some relearning - and asking some deep, honest, and difficult questions about who I was and what it meant to me. Eventually, I became a mental health counselor.

It was through my birth search and reunion process in Korea that really ignited a passion in me to find ways to serve the adoptee community. And figured out that if I benefited from this kind of support, I wondered how many other adoptees out there needed it and needed some place to join.

We can share our stories, we can listen to each other, we can advocate. We can refer our allies to information so they can learn. A lot of folks reading this are interested in knowing: “How can I listen and walk beside [loved ones who are adoptees] so that it feels meaningful and appropriate for all of us?”*

*See the end of this article for resources and tools from Cam!

Was there a catalyst that caused you to begin the journey of exploring how adoption has impacted your life? Was there a moment of prioritizing thinking about it?

For me there were a few catalysts. One was being introduced to the Asian American church later on in my life as a young adult. Up until that time, I didn't really know there was an Asian American church and I didn't have the resources to consider myself Asian American.

It was being invited to this faith community that literally opened that door to Asian American siblings, neighbors, and some fellow adoptees. That was on campus at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. [This experience] gave me a window into what it looks like to walk along Asian American leadership and to see myself represented in people who make a difference and who have important ideas.

After this, I think something inside of me received some kind of permission to keep going for it and reaching out for support. That was a really big catalyst!

In that church community someone asked if I was free to work for a week at an adoptee camp as a counselor. That opened the door to the larger adoptee community. It had a domino effect and set a lot of things in order for me.

Where do you think you’re at in your identity journey?

In the journey that never ends, where do I think I am right now? To be frank, life is really wild. We have a toddler and a 7-year-old! We’re just trying to get a kid to sleep through the night. <chuckles> Thankfully, I’m at a point in my life where I accept the hard stuff. Along with the chaos of raising a family and being the age that I’m at, all the practical stuff of having a private practice, and staying afloat, I understand I’m along for the ride. In the journey that never ends, the first thing that comes to my mind is the metaphor of an acorn.

There’s this fact that an acorn naturally wants to grow out of the ground. It can grow into a tall, sturdy oak tree. It’s only when there are barriers - lack of sunshine, corrupt soil, rocks, something in the way - that the acorn may struggle to grow.

So, I think sometimes I’ve thought of myself as some broken thing that isn’t doing life correctly, because I’m comparing myself to other people around me - peers, or social media, or my own standards for mental health, or a quality of life I’m striving for… but when I look at my journey like that acorn, I realize that people naturally want to and do grow when the conditions are in their favor. I’m at the point in my life where I’m grateful for the mentors, guides, and role models, friends and colleagues who have helped me identify some of those barriers that were holding me back and helped me shift them around in a way that helps me grow naturally - to thrive.

That metaphor is helpful for me because it takes the burden off of me fully and allows me to ask for help. I don't have to be ashamed to ask for help, to invite people in my corner, and ask others to walk alongside me. I think that’s what we’re made for: to experience that kind of fellowship and community together. I'm at the phase where I’m starting to sprout!

In the journey that never ends, I believe that we, as people, are designed to flourish.

I’m really thankful for the resources that people have shared with me along the way: the maps, and guides, and tools that I’m using right now: I’m at the stage where I’m sharing that with other people as much as I can. I may not know exactly what you’ve been through, but I've been through stuff, and I’m happy to cheer for you.

I want to say: Here’s my toolkit, here’s what I've benefited from. How can I share that in a way that’s accessible and personal to you? I’ll walk alongside you. I’m going to set this here and whoever wants it, can take it.

I’m still learning alongside every single person here. The joy is that I've got people who share with me, too. If you’re reading this and you can allow someone to feel that comfort as well, I’m cheering for you. Let’s certainly do that for one another as much as we can.

What’s been the biggest lesson, theme, or take away you can apply to the journey?

Right now, in this season, it’s the idea that we grow stronger together in community.

One of the reasons that that is fresh in my mind is that, professionally, as a counselor, in a lot of ways, I get a front row seat in the ability to witness the positive impact that the adoptee community has on a lot of my adoptee clients… there’s such an impact from just meeting other people who “get it.” Not that we're all the same, but when you go from: Hey, I don't know what I’m going through… I can’t put my finger on it... Something feels off or missing... Am I the only one?

When you go from that to: Wow, there are entire organizations led by adult adoptees that are rallying and cheering for one another and advocating for children and advocating for laws to change… discovering that that even exists… and meeting some of your people. <pauses> It doesn’t mean we all agree, but for me, I have also personally experienced that the adoptee community is a place of healing, camaraderie, and empathy.

There are moments that I’ve met adoptees or adult adoptee counselors where, even just in the first meeting, there is an unspoken understanding that we can just “get” about each other. The wall comes down. You feel comfortable and safe to express different kinds of feelings. I’m not worried about how it’s going to make my parents feel or that someone else won’t understand.

We get it. There’s a feeling of: Wow. We’re here together.

The community piece for me is such a positive factor in healing and mental health. The takeaway for me is: Where and how do we make communities more accessible for the teen sitting in his bedroom thinking: “Is there anyone else out there?!”

That was me in Wisconsin in the 80s. And now there ARE and let’s make this accessible for [those teens].

We don’t want to force you to do things you don’t want to. We don’t want to project things on you. But if you didn’t know, there are resources and if you’re wondering… The answer is “yes.” Let’s get you plugged in. Community. I’m a huge proponent of that. And it’s a major theme for me this season.

What’s been the biggest surprise?

I think for me, the surprise is that it’s inevitable: the lifelong aspect. We never get done being an adoptee. There’re always things to learn and go through and experience. The surprise is when it happens. The learning. It’s not always at an expected time or place. My daughter told me tonight: You’re my birth family.

Wow, that’s deep and precious. The learning is lifelong. And it’s inter-generational. The realization of how much adoption can impact the lifelong experience on me, including my family. It’s something that’s common sense, but actually experiencing it on the spot, on the street level, and looking into your family’s eyes... I wasn’t planning on having this moment with my daughter tonight. It was completely unplanned. It happened and there's going to be more of those.

Yo, they are CHILDREN. They want to know. They’re curious. They are so innocent. They are putting the pieces together. Their brains are set and ready to go! They’re coming into this world designed to be curious. We are hopefully doing what we can to be there and in that with them.

What’s been the biggest challenge or hurdle?

Right now the challenge is navigating the deep dive into the adoptee reality while still trying to cook my kids dinner at night, do the laundry, have a marriage, be a neighbor, friend, brother… and how much [thinking about adoption and my business] flows over into other aspects of my life. How do you turn it off?

For me, part of it is due to my profession. It’s not like I go to work, come home, and not think about it. My job and passion is to think about being a mental health professional. It’s a double-edged sword. The challenge is: How do I strike a balance between opening up my phone and writing down an amazing thought or giving my kid a bath before doing business. Maybe I jot down a note on a napkin, instead. <chuckles>

The idea is striking a balance between being so plugged into adoption advocacy that I lose sight of being present with my family. That’s an ongoing dialogue. I might say: I’m really in a groove this week, but my daughter’s sick and school got canceled. And the schedule gets switched around. The goal is to be seeped in adoption without it completely hijacking different aspects of my life.

There is a reality of your work, of having to be “on” all the time. Social media, for example, is also very in-the-moment. And your work is not “just a job.” It’s personal. It’s your passion and your life!

Yes! Other people can relate to the work. I don’t mean to say that it is so different or profound, but because adoption is a personal aspect of my lived experience, to learn more about it means learning more about myself. It means constantly uncovering personal resources that will help me and my family.

I have to stop thinking the world will end if I don’t download that pdf right now. I’m working on having the attitude to not be so urgent about things and still give myself permission to be passionate about it.

In graduate school for becoming a counselor, one of the messages in our program was being mindful about self-care as a counselor. It’s an ongoing negotiation between what I need to be refreshed. I’ve worked to establish and explore what those boundaries are in a way that promotes health and a holistic lifestyle. A lot of counselors can resonate with this. We must learn how to leave work at work. But being an adoptee, I can't ever leave work behind.

What has brought you the most joy?

When I think about joy, apart from my family and just being able to love on my kids and spouse, after hearing your question, I first thought about the BIPOC Adoptee Voices conference last summer <2024>. It was this meeting with maybe 100 or so adoptees from all over with so many different backgrounds and stories represented. The way that the conference was put together and organized and facilitated… it was so special to me.

There were moments we could connect and talk to one another, and then also very informally share and eat some food together while singing songs and having a blast while having your guard down. That profound reality of: Wow, we are all adopted here. This is something! It’s that bittersweet joy. There are probably a lot of unfortunate things that had to happen for us to all to be here: Family separation is rooted in loss.

But the joy for me is that we all found each other that weekend. We were laughing. We were sharing resources, dialoguing, growing, learning, and everyone there was an expert on their own story. That weekend, I left feeling so filled up.

It’s almost like, after a conference like that - you feel the post conference blues. You get that experience so intensely of being seen and being able to see others that you get back on the airplane and you think, That was awesome! When do we get to go again!?

There’s that post-trip, post-meeting kind of reality check of: Not all places are like this. That’s part of being human. For adoptees, for me, it is such a joy to be able to get in space like that and just be US and grow together there.

What does belonging mean to you? What does it mean to belong?

I like the idea that a space was designed with us in mind, or that I can be me and I don't have to worry about feeling shame, or guilt, or being me and that there aren’t people around here that don’t want me to be here.

There’s that idea of: This fits for me. I fit into this context in an organic, natural kind of way and I don’t have to feel threatened about whether or not I should leave or shouldn’t be here. The assumption is: We’re all here together and that's by design and that’s okay. All of those ideas go into what belonging means to me.

Where do you feel you belong?

For me, that's an ongoing question and answer process. As an adoptee, I thought I would belong in Korea. There were seasons in my life where I thought: Gosh, that’s the place for me.

While I was in Korea, I didn't fully feel that sense of belonging. I did at the same time. Maybe other adoptees get what I’m talking about. So, there's that aspect of it.

These days what I’ve been practicing, reflecting on, trying to think about, and be more intentional about is understanding that being in places where I belong isn’t necessarily up to the environment. For me, it can be an internal conviction that I get to belong where I am right now.

I belong here as I walk down the street in the heart of Minneapolis. Maybe other people might not feel like I belong here. But *I‘m* committed to feeling like I belong here. I’m committed to belonging here in an internalized way. That may be abstract. But I’ve spent so many years having that threat take me out of feeling like I belong. I don’t want to lose another minute being held back by a threat like that.

I know that’s not fake: people feeling unsafe or dangerous. To the extent that it is possible or feasible for me, I am trying to make it a mindset that I feel like I belong. I don’t want to be held back by arbitrary notions of who should be here and who shouldn’t. I want to live my life with people that I love without feeling fear or being held back by perceived or real notions of it.

What else haven’t I asked you that I should be asking you?

Adoption literacy, in general, is something that I benefited from as a concept and a practice. I’m doing the best I can to put language to that so other people can benefit from it, too. So I’m thankful that anyone with a pencil and paper or a laptop can strike up a conversation with anyone else and grow together. I think that’s a picture of what the adoptee community is.

The resources, and strengths, and gifts, and talents that you (or anyone) can bring to this world are needed. You being you. I’m thankful to see that. A year ago, we didn’t know each other, but the fact that we’re talking now, that we’re getting more connected to one another and can bounce ideas off one another, and root for each other… That’s awesome.

I’m really thrilled for connections like this. I love being in community and walking alongside others on our journeys. This is what I’m all about. It’s what brings me joy. I hope people know that about me.

Complementary Resources From Cam:

1. Cam's Speaking & Training Reel Feb 2025

2. Read Adoption Literacy: A Practical Guide for Counselors

3. Watch Cam's Minneapolis TEDx Talk

4. HBO Max: Cam addresses adoption narratives in the media

5. Read Cam's new book The Adoptee's Journey: From Loss and Trauma to Healing and Empowerment

6. Virtual TEEN ADOPTEE Support Groups

7. Adoptive Parenting Consultation Group [3-Month Coaching with Cam]

8. Cam Addresses Adoption Trauma with CBS News

9. 10 Facts about Adoptees

10. Currently accepting speaking requests for 2025/2026

11. An Ethos for Adoptee Speakers

12. Subscribe to Monthly Resource Package for important updates and exclusive support options